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	<title>Response2paganchristianity's Weblog</title>
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		<title>I read Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna and almost resigned</title>
		<link>http://response2paganchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/04/23/read-pagan-christianity-by-viola-and-barna-and-almost-resigned/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 06:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>response2paganchristianity</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Barna]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[frank viola]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[george barna]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pagan]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[pagan christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[response]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Viola]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[I read the book when I was on vacation &#8211; bad idea (I was devastated by the book &#8211; kind of ruined vacation) and I almost resigned &#8211; (I should have realized when a publisher has a warning in front of the book that this was a book even they were uncomfortable with) - but i was determined [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=response2paganchristianity.wordpress.com&amp;blog=3557604&amp;post=3&amp;subd=response2paganchristianity&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">I read the book when I was on vacation &#8211; bad idea (I was devastated by the book &#8211; kind of ruined vacation) and I almost resigned &#8211; (I should have realized when a publisher has a warning in front of the book that this was a book even they were uncomfortable with) - but i was determined to do whatever God wanted me to, even if that means that i throw away my ministry that i felt so called to - but as I wrestled things through and talked to very wise men and dear pastors I began to realize a few things but i talked to very few people about it. Then one day a young pastor confessed the same devastating effects had happened to him and i realized i needed to express some of the things i had discovered. If you are searching for answers here is a place to start but the wrestling i went through let me know that i was willing to give it all up &#8211; to put it on the altar and drive a knife through it if God desired it. I have nothing against Frank Viola and realize he is search for solutions but i simply believe he makes some jumps in logic that are faulty.  </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">1-God has no problem redeeming pagan things &#8211; in fact I think we gentiles when pagan before the lord redeemed us &#8211; and in fact God has recaptured a number of things in our day &#8211; Christmas and Easter are two examples &#8211; they were both pagan and yet I doubt the authors avoid celebrating these &#8220;recaptured&#8221; holidays</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">2- Preaching may have come from Greek origins but that does not mean it is wrong &#8211; we live in a &#8220;Greek&#8217; culture &#8211; it seems logical to use a form of communication that works well in that culture &#8212;- If I was in the middle east in biblical times I would used a different style - just like if I was in a tiny nomadic village I would use a different style (around a campfire) but in our culture this still seems to be a powerful way of communicating (look at the presidential campaigns). Jesus, in fact, used many different styles &#8211; on the sermon on the mount he seems to use a oratory style, other times parables, other times miracles. In fact, no command is given as to which style should be used.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">3.&#8211; the &#8220;House&#8221; churches mentioned in the book of Acts is &#8220;descriptive&#8221; not &#8220;prescriptive&#8221;. The reason for this that a church in each culture will look different &#8212; some Indian culture lived in a giant common house called a lodge and each family had it&#8217;s own room &#8212; what about college dorm rooms? &#8212; what about nomads? &#8212; What about ancient wealthy land owner that had huge open rooms that would allow 100 people to meet? - </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">4- The people in biblical times had no choice but to meet in homes &#8212; there were no school gyms, college auditoriums, movie houses, lecture halls, etc. So were churches in a home out of necessity or was it part of their plan? Scripture never makes a demand that we must meet in homes or forbids us from meeting in buildings.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">5&#8211; the &#8220;spirit led&#8221; meetings in the book of Acts may not look like what the Pagan book is describing &#8211; In fact the disciples set up deacons so that they could devote themselves to the word &#8212; that seems to imply that the people were coming to hear what the disciples had uncovered in scripture &#8211; I admit that interaction after the sermon would be helpful and needs to be better woven into the service or small groups, but once again scripture makes no demand for it.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">6&#8211; This was the most powerful point for me. Pagan forms (preaching, buildings, pastors, etc) do not mean those forms are evil or force worship of pagan gods &#8211; Paul was ok with eating meat offered to idols &#8211; as long as you were not worshiping idols. meat is meat - buildings are buildings &#8211; sermons are sermons &#8211; the form is not  sacred nor is it pagan &#8211; it comes down to the heart of those using those things. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">&#8211; Interestingly  I was drawn to the book because I realize that we have made certain things in the church sacred &#8211; I remember a woman mad at our church because we had no kneeing bench and did not give altar calls every week (which is another discussion) &#8211; I have had people mad when I point out in our modern culture Sunday morning is a horrible time to have church &#8211; it would be far better to meet Saturday nights &#8211; (when they have argued that Sunday is the lord&#8217;s day &#8211; I point out that technically according to the bible Sunday starts Saturday night after sunset) &#8211; so in this day and age we need as a church to re-examine all of our assumptions &#8211; most of those assumptions are not sacred &#8211; but Viola&#8217;s problem is that he labels them pagan and therefore evil. He also is guilty of replacing them with his own sacred cows.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:normal;margin:0;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Arial','sans-serif';">We live in a time where a generation is searching for churches that they can encounter God &#8211; it is not about form &#8211; it is not about buildings &#8211; it is about a group of transformed people that are filled with the Holy Spirit. A building will not do that. A style of teaching will not do it &#8211; Only God will do it and nothing will hinder that. Well lets start here and see where we go from here.</span></p>
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		<title>Hello world!</title>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 04:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>response2paganchristianity</dc:creator>
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